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	<title>Comments for notes from the winemaker</title>
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	<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com</link>
	<description>Wine-geeky and wine-wonky; day-to-day, week-to-week, sometimes month-to-month postings on growing world-class grapes and running a small artisanal winery in the Sonoma Valley.</description>
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		<title>Comment on The Greatly Exaggerated Demise of Syrah by Dennis Tsiorbas</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2011/10/the-greatly-exaggerated-demise-of-syrah.html/comment-page-1#comment-4689</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Tsiorbas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2459#comment-4689</guid>
		<description>John, you said this on SH blog: &quot;Sad desperation is all to common in our business and political culture these days.&quot; I hate to think that small family owned (In particular) wineries are in sad desperation. That really  broke my heart to read. You&#039;ll think I&#039;m nuts, but I love the movie Bottle shock&quot;, and one scene in particular: Alan Rickman ( Steven Spurrier) is visiting the wineries and he&#039;s sitting down waiting for lunch or more probably a wine tasting, when this sweet unassuming elderly gentlemen brings him a bowl of nachos and guacamole; there was this sense of &#039;earthiness&#039; and a frailty of effort that makes certain human being so charismatic within the context of their culture. 
John, I have a fantasy that California has large numbers of these kind of small wineries  run by down-to-earth people carving and molding beautiful, creative, and distinct wines. The thought that they may be in sad desperation is a burst of reality equal to my own  worn-down body. Just my reaction to your post &quot;over there.&quot;
Also, I wanted thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment.
Sincerely,
Dennis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you said this on SH blog: &#8220;Sad desperation is all to common in our business and political culture these days.&#8221; I hate to think that small family owned (In particular) wineries are in sad desperation. That really  broke my heart to read. You&#8217;ll think I&#8217;m nuts, but I love the movie Bottle shock&#8221;, and one scene in particular: Alan Rickman ( Steven Spurrier) is visiting the wineries and he&#8217;s sitting down waiting for lunch or more probably a wine tasting, when this sweet unassuming elderly gentlemen brings him a bowl of nachos and guacamole; there was this sense of &#8216;earthiness&#8217; and a frailty of effort that makes certain human being so charismatic within the context of their culture.<br />
John, I have a fantasy that California has large numbers of these kind of small wineries  run by down-to-earth people carving and molding beautiful, creative, and distinct wines. The thought that they may be in sad desperation is a burst of reality equal to my own  worn-down body. Just my reaction to your post &#8220;over there.&#8221;<br />
Also, I wanted thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment.<br />
Sincerely,<br />
Dennis</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Greatly Exaggerated Demise of Syrah by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2011/10/the-greatly-exaggerated-demise-of-syrah.html/comment-page-1#comment-4687</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2459#comment-4687</guid>
		<description>Hi Dennis - I think we crossed paths over at STEVE! Welcome to my little zone of truthiness. 

I agree with you that Syrah has the potential to provide a more consistent high-quality consumer experience than many other varieties. The breadth of environments where it can be planted and ripen properly is far greater than Pinot and Merlot, and perhaps even than Zinfandel. It may be equal to Chardonnay and nearly equal to Cabernet Sauvignon in its aptitudes. Two things to avoid when growing the variety: quality is very sensitive to over-cropping, and Syrah vines should &lt;strong&gt;never&lt;/strong&gt; be run out of water before harvest. 

We don&#039;t distribute in NH, nor anywhere else at this time. My latest Syrah bottling---the 2007 Estate---comprised under 190 cases. Westwood wines are available online and through the Wine Club. 

Best of luck in your exploration of what the variety has to offer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dennis &#8211; I think we crossed paths over at STEVE! Welcome to my little zone of truthiness. </p>
<p>I agree with you that Syrah has the potential to provide a more consistent high-quality consumer experience than many other varieties. The breadth of environments where it can be planted and ripen properly is far greater than Pinot and Merlot, and perhaps even than Zinfandel. It may be equal to Chardonnay and nearly equal to Cabernet Sauvignon in its aptitudes. Two things to avoid when growing the variety: quality is very sensitive to over-cropping, and Syrah vines should <strong>never</strong> be run out of water before harvest. </p>
<p>We don&#8217;t distribute in NH, nor anywhere else at this time. My latest Syrah bottling&#8212;the 2007 Estate&#8212;comprised under 190 cases. Westwood wines are available online and through the Wine Club. </p>
<p>Best of luck in your exploration of what the variety has to offer!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Greatly Exaggerated Demise of Syrah by Dennis Tsiorbas</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2011/10/the-greatly-exaggerated-demise-of-syrah.html/comment-page-1#comment-4686</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Tsiorbas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2459#comment-4686</guid>
		<description>John Kelly,
I just happened upon your blog via another one, and since over the last month I&#039;ve been tasting Syrah/Shiraz, I zeroed in on this post of yours; I&#039;m not into wine technology, I&#039;m into tasting, and Syrah is more consistently a good wine than just about any I&#039;ve tried. Since I&#039;ve not seen Westwood wines in NH, I&#039;ll be sure to look harder, I can&#039;t comment on your efforts, but the premise: &quot; Simply put, in my experience these people are out of touch with our consumer demographic.&quot; Is true with me; I think many folks want to try something a little different, and with a little nudge they will. In the past I have had a number of so-so to poor Shiraz wines from Australia (a few very good ones too), which put a damper on my S/S exploration, but with a revived interested, especially California Syrah, I have no problem advising my readers to explore these wines with a good probability that they will come away pleased.
Sincerely,
Dennis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Kelly,<br />
I just happened upon your blog via another one, and since over the last month I&#8217;ve been tasting Syrah/Shiraz, I zeroed in on this post of yours; I&#8217;m not into wine technology, I&#8217;m into tasting, and Syrah is more consistently a good wine than just about any I&#8217;ve tried. Since I&#8217;ve not seen Westwood wines in NH, I&#8217;ll be sure to look harder, I can&#8217;t comment on your efforts, but the premise: &#8221; Simply put, in my experience these people are out of touch with our consumer demographic.&#8221; Is true with me; I think many folks want to try something a little different, and with a little nudge they will. In the past I have had a number of so-so to poor Shiraz wines from Australia (a few very good ones too), which put a damper on my S/S exploration, but with a revived interested, especially California Syrah, I have no problem advising my readers to explore these wines with a good probability that they will come away pleased.<br />
Sincerely,<br />
Dennis</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consumers Finally Ask About Alcohol Levels by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/consumers-finally-ask-about-alcohol-levels.html/comment-page-1#comment-4608</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2195#comment-4608</guid>
		<description>Hi Edward: Sure, I have no problem promoting your blog here. More and better wines made from Norton and more consumer awareness of them is a laudable goal, in my opinion. Best of luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Edward: Sure, I have no problem promoting your blog here. More and better wines made from Norton and more consumer awareness of them is a laudable goal, in my opinion. Best of luck.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consumers Finally Ask About Alcohol Levels by Edward Lohmann</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/consumers-finally-ask-about-alcohol-levels.html/comment-page-1#comment-4604</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Lohmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2195#comment-4604</guid>
		<description>Interesting observation, Same questions I sometimes encounter in the tasting room.....usually from some know-it-all. Cheers

My blog: thegrumpynortonian      (almost all about the Norton wine)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting observation, Same questions I sometimes encounter in the tasting room&#8230;..usually from some know-it-all. Cheers</p>
<p>My blog: thegrumpynortonian      (almost all about the Norton wine)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Consumers Finally Ask About Alcohol Levels by Consumers finally ask about alcohol levels &#124; New World Winemaker Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/consumers-finally-ask-about-alcohol-levels.html/comment-page-1#comment-4465</link>
		<dc:creator>Consumers finally ask about alcohol levels &#124; New World Winemaker Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2195#comment-4465</guid>
		<description>[...] of Westwood Wines, Sonoma California. This blog was originally published on his blog: &#8220;notes from the winemaker&#8221; on the 3rd of January 2012 at 14h52 to be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Westwood Wines, Sonoma California. This blog was originally published on his blog: &#8220;notes from the winemaker&#8221; on the 3rd of January 2012 at 14h52 to be [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4317</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4317</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Tina. I think we rate our intangibles as well. People, too---as we watch the gladiatorial spectacle of the Presidential candidates being voted off the island. Thumbs up, or thumbs down---the ultimate digital binary rating system. This morning &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.wblakegray.com/2012/01/on-100-point-scale-uncertainty-and.html&quot; title=&quot;On The 100 Point Scale&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Blake Gray&lt;/a&gt; has a piece up suggesting that some people embrace scores to impose order on an uncertain world---even if it is the illusion of order. 

Blake talks about &quot;score-haters&quot; and reading some comments I have no doubt that there is a lot of hate out there over scores. I&#039;m not a score hater. I do wish that people who think scores are the be-all and end-all would wake the hell up. 

Yesterday Tom Wark and I had a brief exchange on Twitter where I threw out the idea that &quot;scores are &lt;strong&gt;emoticons&lt;/strong&gt;.&quot; Follows up the last couple paragraphs in my original post---as in &quot;This wine is awesome! I&#039;m 98 points on it :-D #winefuckyeah&quot; Hmmm&#133; I suppose scores could be viewed as equivalent to Tumblr tags too. 

Tom took it up a notch and suggested that the idea of scores as emoticons invoked Hume and Kant. I&#039;m not all that well-read in philosophy; my understanding of Hume and Kant is superficial at best. As I have understood Hume, he rejected Cartesian rationality and embraced passion as the motivation of behavior. Viewed in that light, perhaps scores are reflections of our passion for wine. Emoticons indeed. Kant I&#039;m not so sure of, unless the connection is the idea that scores reflect our innate need to impose rationality on subjective experience. 

This discussion needs to be taken down many notches. Josh Hermsmeyer (&lt;a href=&quot;https://twitter.com/#!/pinotblogger&quot; title=&quot;Josh on Twitter&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@pinotblogger&lt;/a&gt;) put up a little graphic that I saw as a corollary to wine scoring: &lt;br/&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/heyyyyy.jpg&quot; title=&quot;heyyyy&quot; alt=&quot;heyyyy&quot; width=&quot;330&quot; height=&quot;237&quot; class=&quot;aligncenter&quot;/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&#133;which led me to recall reports about a phone app that allows you to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2075169/I-Just-Made-Love-app-lets-tell-world--thousands-have.html&quot; title=&quot;Just Made Love phone app&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;geo-tag, and &lt;strong&gt;rate&lt;/strong&gt;, your sexual activity&lt;/a&gt;, and share the info with your friends. Talk about human desire motivating our rationality. Coming soon (so to speak)---&quot;Rate Your O&quot;!!! Imagine how this would put a &lt;strong&gt;proper perspective&lt;/strong&gt; on the &quot;wisdom of crowds.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Tina. I think we rate our intangibles as well. People, too&#8212;as we watch the gladiatorial spectacle of the Presidential candidates being voted off the island. Thumbs up, or thumbs down&#8212;the ultimate digital binary rating system. This morning <a href="http://blog.wblakegray.com/2012/01/on-100-point-scale-uncertainty-and.html" title="On The 100 Point Scale" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Blake Gray</a> has a piece up suggesting that some people embrace scores to impose order on an uncertain world&#8212;even if it is the illusion of order. </p>
<p>Blake talks about &#8220;score-haters&#8221; and reading some comments I have no doubt that there is a lot of hate out there over scores. I&#8217;m not a score hater. I do wish that people who think scores are the be-all and end-all would wake the hell up. </p>
<p>Yesterday Tom Wark and I had a brief exchange on Twitter where I threw out the idea that &#8220;scores are <strong>emoticons</strong>.&#8221; Follows up the last couple paragraphs in my original post&#8212;as in &#8220;This wine is awesome! I&#8217;m 98 points on it <img src='http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' />  #winefuckyeah&#8221; Hmmm&#8230; I suppose scores could be viewed as equivalent to Tumblr tags too. </p>
<p>Tom took it up a notch and suggested that the idea of scores as emoticons invoked Hume and Kant. I&#8217;m not all that well-read in philosophy; my understanding of Hume and Kant is superficial at best. As I have understood Hume, he rejected Cartesian rationality and embraced passion as the motivation of behavior. Viewed in that light, perhaps scores are reflections of our passion for wine. Emoticons indeed. Kant I&#8217;m not so sure of, unless the connection is the idea that scores reflect our innate need to impose rationality on subjective experience. </p>
<p>This discussion needs to be taken down many notches. Josh Hermsmeyer (<a href="https://twitter.com/#!/pinotblogger" title="Josh on Twitter" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">@pinotblogger</a>) put up a little graphic that I saw as a corollary to wine scoring: <br /><img src="http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/heyyyyy.jpg" title="heyyyy" alt="heyyyy" width="330" height="237" class="aligncenter"/><br />&#8230;which led me to recall reports about a phone app that allows you to <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2075169/I-Just-Made-Love-app-lets-tell-world--thousands-have.html" title="Just Made Love phone app" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">geo-tag, and <strong>rate</strong>, your sexual activity</a>, and share the info with your friends. Talk about human desire motivating our rationality. Coming soon (so to speak)&#8212;&#8221;Rate Your O&#8221;!!! Imagine how this would put a <strong>proper perspective</strong> on the &#8220;wisdom of crowds.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by Tina Morey</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4307</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina Morey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 05:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4307</guid>
		<description>Hi John,

Why do we invariably assign a rating system to our tangibles?  Because we crave it—we’ve become accustomed to be told that this is the way it should be—it’s easy and most folks like easy, especially in our fast-paced, “difficult” lives. But what happens when we “lead” folks in a direction that allows them to think, instead of react.

For me, this is the next level, a higher level.  Where each person makes his/her own decisions based on many factors, hopefully on the experience itself, not just a #.

&quot;I think we are about to zero in on the fact it is time to 86 the idea that wine scores imply an objective standard.&quot;  Priceless.

Thanks for this exquisitely-written piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>Why do we invariably assign a rating system to our tangibles?  Because we crave it—we’ve become accustomed to be told that this is the way it should be—it’s easy and most folks like easy, especially in our fast-paced, “difficult” lives. But what happens when we “lead” folks in a direction that allows them to think, instead of react.</p>
<p>For me, this is the next level, a higher level.  Where each person makes his/her own decisions based on many factors, hopefully on the experience itself, not just a #.</p>
<p>&#8220;I think we are about to zero in on the fact it is time to 86 the idea that wine scores imply an objective standard.&#8221;  Priceless.</p>
<p>Thanks for this exquisitely-written piece.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4302</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 01:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4302</guid>
		<description>Blake - That&#039;s a really good point about aggregator sites. It makes a lot of sense that meta-analyses of ratings from disparate sources would perform some sort of statistical normalization. It&#039;s like me measuring the values on my tasting panels&#039; attribute intensity lines with a ruler. 

But heck this is hardly the first time a number has been verbed - I think we are about to zero in on the fact it is time to 86 the idea that wine scores imply an objective standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake &#8211; That&#8217;s a really good point about aggregator sites. It makes a lot of sense that meta-analyses of ratings from disparate sources would perform some sort of statistical normalization. It&#8217;s like me measuring the values on my tasting panels&#8217; attribute intensity lines with a ruler. </p>
<p>But heck this is hardly the first time a number has been verbed &#8211; I think we are about to zero in on the fact it is time to 86 the idea that wine scores imply an objective standard.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4299</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 01:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4299</guid>
		<description>Jennifer - thanks for stopping by! Tasting 32-34 wines, writing notes and making an &quot;objective&quot; evaluation for every one all in one sitting is a lot of hard work, isn&#039;t it! And yet, with all the wines out there to taste, the intrepid wine reviewer might do three times that in a day. Every day. The very thought gives me the shivers. 

The article you cited said something to the point that doing a &quot;research-grade&quot; tasting of just 18 wines could take 5 weeks. In my experience that is the time scale required for a panel to do a thorough quantitative evaluation of a group of wines. And yet people throw brickbats at reviewers for not pursuing their trade at that level of rigor. 

I&#039;m glad you got to participate on the Pinot Shootout panel. It is great for the usual suspects to get a grower&#039;s perspective---I hope you also got something out of seeing that aspect of the end user world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer &#8211; thanks for stopping by! Tasting 32-34 wines, writing notes and making an &#8220;objective&#8221; evaluation for every one all in one sitting is a lot of hard work, isn&#8217;t it! And yet, with all the wines out there to taste, the intrepid wine reviewer might do three times that in a day. Every day. The very thought gives me the shivers. </p>
<p>The article you cited said something to the point that doing a &#8220;research-grade&#8221; tasting of just 18 wines could take 5 weeks. In my experience that is the time scale required for a panel to do a thorough quantitative evaluation of a group of wines. And yet people throw brickbats at reviewers for not pursuing their trade at that level of rigor. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you got to participate on the Pinot Shootout panel. It is great for the usual suspects to get a grower&#8217;s perspective&#8212;I hope you also got something out of seeing that aspect of the end user world.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by Blake Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4298</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4298</guid>
		<description>John: A very minor point about something that came up in comments:

Increasingly, music and movies ARE being graded on the 100-point scale, mainly by aggregator sites, which apply a 100-point-scale equivalent to ratings from various critics. This is particularly difficult for New York Times ratings, which use no scale whatsoever, but I have seen them translated.

In the music fandom world, these aggregator sites with 100-point-ratings seem to be increasingly influential. 

I often argue that critics&#039; ratings matter little for Hollywood movies, but that&#039;s tangential: in fact, imdb.com, which for many (including me) is the first stop for movie information, gives an aggregate rating from 0.0 to 10.0 -- the 100-point scale, with a different decimal point.

Not arguing pro scale or anti scale here today. Just pointing out that wine isn&#039;t uniquely 97&#039;d (ooooooooh, I made a number into a verb! Take that Steve!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: A very minor point about something that came up in comments:</p>
<p>Increasingly, music and movies ARE being graded on the 100-point scale, mainly by aggregator sites, which apply a 100-point-scale equivalent to ratings from various critics. This is particularly difficult for New York Times ratings, which use no scale whatsoever, but I have seen them translated.</p>
<p>In the music fandom world, these aggregator sites with 100-point-ratings seem to be increasingly influential. </p>
<p>I often argue that critics&#8217; ratings matter little for Hollywood movies, but that&#8217;s tangential: in fact, imdb.com, which for many (including me) is the first stop for movie information, gives an aggregate rating from 0.0 to 10.0 &#8212; the 100-point scale, with a different decimal point.</p>
<p>Not arguing pro scale or anti scale here today. Just pointing out that wine isn&#8217;t uniquely 97&#8242;d (ooooooooh, I made a number into a verb! Take that Steve!)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by Jennifer R Thomson</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4294</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer R Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 22:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4294</guid>
		<description>MSNBC recently ran a piece about UC Davis researchers and &quot;How scientists learn to speak &#039;the language of flavor&#039;&quot; I found the most interesting part of the article to be the scientific approach the institution takes when - just as you&#039;ve proposed - they &quot;train the panel&quot; (http://on.msnbc.com/zuVzam)

As a Pinot Noir Grower, I was thrilled to have been invited by Barbara Drady, organizer of the Pinot Noir Shootout, to judge the final round of Pinots in December for the 2012 contest. She asked that judges take copious notes, support their ultimate score, and suggested a variety of point systems and scales utilized by Wine Spectator and the like. 

I sipped through 32 or 34 Pinots and chose to assign a numerical value based on 70, 80, 90 standing firm on my belief that NO ONE consumer, expert, winemaker or otherwise can truly differentiate between a 92 and a 93 point wine. 

By number 27 or so, I found it difficult to concentrate or articulate on paper or even decide upon a number. 

Nonetheless, it was a wonderful experience. I believe more Growers should be included as tasters/judges to add diversity and expertise to often narrowly focused panels; the scoring system should in some way be streamlined or one approach adopted by the various &quot;point scoring machines&quot; and that wine critics (and bloggers) should probably find something better to spend their time criticizing. 

Thanks for the scientific post John. Good to see your winemaking self back online again. Let&#039;s hear it for the 2012 growing season!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MSNBC recently ran a piece about UC Davis researchers and &#8220;How scientists learn to speak &#8216;the language of flavor&#8217;&#8221; I found the most interesting part of the article to be the scientific approach the institution takes when &#8211; just as you&#8217;ve proposed &#8211; they &#8220;train the panel&#8221; (<a href="http://on.msnbc.com/zuVzam" rel="nofollow">http://on.msnbc.com/zuVzam</a>)</p>
<p>As a Pinot Noir Grower, I was thrilled to have been invited by Barbara Drady, organizer of the Pinot Noir Shootout, to judge the final round of Pinots in December for the 2012 contest. She asked that judges take copious notes, support their ultimate score, and suggested a variety of point systems and scales utilized by Wine Spectator and the like. </p>
<p>I sipped through 32 or 34 Pinots and chose to assign a numerical value based on 70, 80, 90 standing firm on my belief that NO ONE consumer, expert, winemaker or otherwise can truly differentiate between a 92 and a 93 point wine. </p>
<p>By number 27 or so, I found it difficult to concentrate or articulate on paper or even decide upon a number. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, it was a wonderful experience. I believe more Growers should be included as tasters/judges to add diversity and expertise to often narrowly focused panels; the scoring system should in some way be streamlined or one approach adopted by the various &#8220;point scoring machines&#8221; and that wine critics (and bloggers) should probably find something better to spend their time criticizing. </p>
<p>Thanks for the scientific post John. Good to see your winemaking self back online again. Let&#8217;s hear it for the 2012 growing season!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4293</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4293</guid>
		<description>Thomas - I will stipulate that many wine critics lack grounding in grape growing and wine production when they start out, but it seems to me that every one I have interacted with has picked up more than a little grounding on the job. 

I deplore the expectation of some consumers that wine evaluation by critics is somehow different from other forms of criticism. We can read Foucault and Heidegger and find something of value in each, without ever bestowing on either the mantle of infallibility and absolute truth. On a more quotidian level, we can read Consumer Reports for vacuum cleaner reviews and find they give a poor rating to a unit we have used happily for years without experiencing cognitive dissonance. But for some reason, wine is different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas &#8211; I will stipulate that many wine critics lack grounding in grape growing and wine production when they start out, but it seems to me that every one I have interacted with has picked up more than a little grounding on the job. </p>
<p>I deplore the expectation of some consumers that wine evaluation by critics is somehow different from other forms of criticism. We can read Foucault and Heidegger and find something of value in each, without ever bestowing on either the mantle of infallibility and absolute truth. On a more quotidian level, we can read Consumer Reports for vacuum cleaner reviews and find they give a poor rating to a unit we have used happily for years without experiencing cognitive dissonance. But for some reason, wine is different?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by Thomas Pellechia</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4291</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Pellechia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4291</guid>
		<description>John,

&quot;Restaurants, theater, movies, music, literature, cars, cell phone customer service? Are any of these reviewed on a 100-point scale?&quot;

Indeed, they are not. But in most cases, people who review those products/arts have some form of grounding in the manufacture, production, and or performance of the products/arts (maybe restaurant critics are the exception, but many that I&#039;ve encountered are trained cooks--and some are interior designers ;)).

With wine, it is exceedingly rare that top critics have such grounding in the product that they evaluate.

It matters not to me, because I eschew aesthetic criticism in general, deciding to make my own evaluations concerning the things in life that excite me. But as a wine professional, I find the critic/review process deplorable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>&#8220;Restaurants, theater, movies, music, literature, cars, cell phone customer service? Are any of these reviewed on a 100-point scale?&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, they are not. But in most cases, people who review those products/arts have some form of grounding in the manufacture, production, and or performance of the products/arts (maybe restaurant critics are the exception, but many that I&#8217;ve encountered are trained cooks&#8211;and some are interior designers <img src='http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
<p>With wine, it is exceedingly rare that top critics have such grounding in the product that they evaluate.</p>
<p>It matters not to me, because I eschew aesthetic criticism in general, deciding to make my own evaluations concerning the things in life that excite me. But as a wine professional, I find the critic/review process deplorable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by SUAMW</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4290</link>
		<dc:creator>SUAMW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4290</guid>
		<description>Very disappointed to see you outline a system of wine evaluation not far from mine and then declare it impossible, &quot;irrational&quot;.

I agree with Thomas:  &quot;better solution would be for the wine industry and reviewing industry agree on and establish evaluation parameters (standards) and that–maybe–professional reviewers undergo sensory and organoleptic training, not to talk like scientists but to have grounding in the composition of the product that they are evaluating.&quot;

Too bad the egoes and non-scientific backgrounds of most wine reviewers do not allow them to recognize that they could actually be *wrong* in the things they say about wine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very disappointed to see you outline a system of wine evaluation not far from mine and then declare it impossible, &#8220;irrational&#8221;.</p>
<p>I agree with Thomas:  &#8220;better solution would be for the wine industry and reviewing industry agree on and establish evaluation parameters (standards) and that–maybe–professional reviewers undergo sensory and organoleptic training, not to talk like scientists but to have grounding in the composition of the product that they are evaluating.&#8221;</p>
<p>Too bad the egoes and non-scientific backgrounds of most wine reviewers do not allow them to recognize that they could actually be *wrong* in the things they say about wine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4289</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4289</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Steve - I&#039;m 100 points on your 99 points!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Steve &#8211; I&#8217;m 100 points on your 99 points!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by Steve Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4287</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4287</guid>
		<description>John, you hit the nail on the head. I award you 99 points for this extraordinary article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you hit the nail on the head. I award you 99 points for this extraordinary article.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4285</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4285</guid>
		<description>Hi Thomas - I&#039;m working on a post comparing &quot;Technical-Grade&quot; evaluation with the &quot;Research-Grade&quot; approach I presented here. It is fairly easy to develop skills in evaluating and describing wines on a few evaluation parameters---the UC Davis 20-point scale was based on this approach. But as a way to communicate, to write something people want to read about wine that isn&#039;t boring and dry, the 20-point scale is a total failure. 

As to who should care - well, who should care about any other kind of review? Restaurants, theater, movies, music, literature, cars, cell phone customer service? Are any of these reviewed on a 100-point scale? Not that I can think of. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Thomas &#8211; I&#8217;m working on a post comparing &#8220;Technical-Grade&#8221; evaluation with the &#8220;Research-Grade&#8221; approach I presented here. It is fairly easy to develop skills in evaluating and describing wines on a few evaluation parameters&#8212;the UC Davis 20-point scale was based on this approach. But as a way to communicate, to write something people want to read about wine that isn&#8217;t boring and dry, the 20-point scale is a total failure. </p>
<p>As to who should care &#8211; well, who should care about any other kind of review? Restaurants, theater, movies, music, literature, cars, cell phone customer service? Are any of these reviewed on a 100-point scale? Not that I can think of.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by John M. Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4283</link>
		<dc:creator>John M. Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4283</guid>
		<description>Hi Morton - While I agree with your opening premise, you lose me when you state: &quot;The consumer has every right to expect that the critic has adhered to the basic elements of professional sensory evaluation that are necessary to produce accurate and reproducible evaluations.&quot; The entire point of my post is that this expectation is wildly naive and irrational. How are &quot;basic elements&quot; defined? What is your standard for &quot;accurate and reproducible&quot;? My point in this post is that even with the rigor implied in the methodology I presented, &quot;accurate and reproducible&quot; is a matter for statistical calculation. 

I do not believe professional wine reviewers taste in a &quot;haphazard, amateuristic manner.&quot; However, to expect infallibility of even our best tasters is cruel. Even Harry Waugh could confuse Burgundy with Bordeaux in a blind tasting---once in a while, perhaps over lunch. As far as I am concerned, the only right the consumer has in this area is to take responsibility for the willful suspension of their own disbelief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Morton &#8211; While I agree with your opening premise, you lose me when you state: &#8220;The consumer has every right to expect that the critic has adhered to the basic elements of professional sensory evaluation that are necessary to produce accurate and reproducible evaluations.&#8221; The entire point of my post is that this expectation is wildly naive and irrational. How are &#8220;basic elements&#8221; defined? What is your standard for &#8220;accurate and reproducible&#8221;? My point in this post is that even with the rigor implied in the methodology I presented, &#8220;accurate and reproducible&#8221; is a matter for statistical calculation. </p>
<p>I do not believe professional wine reviewers taste in a &#8220;haphazard, amateuristic manner.&#8221; However, to expect infallibility of even our best tasters is cruel. Even Harry Waugh could confuse Burgundy with Bordeaux in a blind tasting&#8212;once in a while, perhaps over lunch. As far as I am concerned, the only right the consumer has in this area is to take responsibility for the willful suspension of their own disbelief.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Research-Grade Wine Evaluation by Thomas Pellechia</title>
		<link>http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/2012/01/research-grade-wine-evaluation.html/comment-page-1#comment-4282</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Pellechia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.winemakernotesblog.com/?p=2330#comment-4282</guid>
		<description>John,

I&#039;m sure you know that I could not agree more with your post, and Mr. DeLorenzo, too (as well as Sue, with whom I&#039;ve discussed this matter earlier on other blogs).

The problem, however, is that there is no incentive for reviewers to drop the pretense of objectivity. The idea that they do their work for the good of the consumer is what gives them currency, and if they reduce their work to merely subjective opining, who should care?

To me, the better solution would be for the wine industry and reviewing industry agree on and establish evaluation parameters (standards) and that--maybe--professional reviewers undergo sensory and organoleptic training, not to talk like scientists but to have grounding in the composition of the product that they are evaluating.

I believe that this is the kind of thing Maynard Amerine had in mind a long time ago. 

Of course, this is my opinion and I also know that there&#039;s a fat chance something like it will ever happen, not as long as opinions are confused with facts the way &quot;reality&quot; TV is confused with reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you know that I could not agree more with your post, and Mr. DeLorenzo, too (as well as Sue, with whom I&#8217;ve discussed this matter earlier on other blogs).</p>
<p>The problem, however, is that there is no incentive for reviewers to drop the pretense of objectivity. The idea that they do their work for the good of the consumer is what gives them currency, and if they reduce their work to merely subjective opining, who should care?</p>
<p>To me, the better solution would be for the wine industry and reviewing industry agree on and establish evaluation parameters (standards) and that&#8211;maybe&#8211;professional reviewers undergo sensory and organoleptic training, not to talk like scientists but to have grounding in the composition of the product that they are evaluating.</p>
<p>I believe that this is the kind of thing Maynard Amerine had in mind a long time ago. </p>
<p>Of course, this is my opinion and I also know that there&#8217;s a fat chance something like it will ever happen, not as long as opinions are confused with facts the way &#8220;reality&#8221; TV is confused with reality.</p>
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